Tips for "do not live the life of others" (Part 1)

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The guest this time is Enzawa, the representative of Enso.She retired from Microsoft Japan in August 2020 and has been an advisor to many venture companies.Start with "personal power -new way of working in the new normal way to do what you want to do" and "doubt".He has authored many books, including the source of thinking and behavior that survives the coming era.In addition to distributing "Sawaen's Gospel Radio Radio" in Voice, online salon "Self -content conversion

・ The background after quitting Microsoft

・ Why did you join Hitachi?

・ It is more interesting to move when the game reset

・ Tips for changing the mind of people who do not want to change

・ In the management training, "Do not talk at WHY"

・ Improve resolution without using "big subject"

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■ Until you quit Microsoft

Kurashima: This is the second appearance this time, this is Mr. Sawa.There are so many titles, and I'm wondering where to explain.I'm very sorry, but are you sure you want to introduce yourself?

Sawa: I'm the president of the company called Enshi Window.He was a Microsoft executive officer until the end of August last year.It's been over a year since I quit.

I worked for Microsoft for 23 years, but if I quit and wandered, I asked Hitachi to call out to Hitachi and worship "Lumada Innovation Evangelist".

It may be better to say that the job is a parallel or a companion.Jac Digital is a digital advisor.We give advice to companies that are hiring engineers and want to focus on DX in the context of "what kind of human resources are needed."

In fact, Kashima Construction, which has a consultation contract, has been a relationship for nearly 30 years.I'm the ski club in Kashima.When I was a new graduate, I entered Kashima as a new graduate, and when I was a new graduate, I was told, "Come on, so come in."

Kurashige: Is it a ski club?That's a surprising connection.

Sawa: It's expanding now, but I have the qualification of skiing.There was such a connection, so when I gave a lecture, the president happened to ask me and said, "That long -haired man is interesting."Now I am talking in the context of digital, human resource development, and managers.

Kurashige: It's quite entering.

Sawa: I'm quite in.Fast Doctor is a medical venture company, but at first it was a completely startup, so how to give a marketing message and the president's pitch advice, such as the advice of the pitch of the president.I was hitting.

Kanagawa Daihatsu Sales is also a historical sales company.A person has been introduced to the president and gets along well and is an advisor.Here is the main mainly manager development.

At the digital shift club, the DX context has entered the design of the company's root part of what kind of services can be provided for the company that wants to shift to digital.

Kurashige: This is also quite entering.

Sawa: Then, "Jun's startup!] It was very popular if I appeared as an advisor, and the president of a software company called M -Lab, which I was watching, contacted me and made an advisory contract.

Kurashige: That's amazing.I don't know how to connect.

Sawa: I just distributed it earlier, but I am a personality with the Internet audio distribution "Voicy".

Kurashige: Voice is distributed every day.

Sawa: I put in the premiere broadcast and it was just 1,400 times yesterday.

Kurashige: That's amazing!After that, there are online salons.

Sawa: There are two online salons.In terms of tags, "technology", "cyber security", "management", "presentation", "self -branding", "multi -carrier", and "other base life".This can be called abstract or general purpose.

Kurashima: Thank you.After all, Mr. Sawa was a Microsoft business executive officer, and he had a strong image of a presentation god, so I was surprised to go to Hitachi after quitting Microsoft.What was the trigger there?

Sawa: I always have trouble asking the question "trigger".In most cases, it was not decided by one, but various things were connected and finally did.

Kurashige: I certainly didn't quit thinking, "Let's change jobs."

Sawa: The quit Microsoft is to comprehensively judge the effects of COVID19.

Kurashima: Did your values change?

Sawa: Rather than changing, it seemed more reasonable to be independent as an option.I operated a Microsoft technology center, but I couldn't go to the center due to COVID19.Updating was also advanced as a project, but it was completely abused and pended.

It was all online to provide content without going to the center.I was getting much better, and I thought, "I don't need to be there."After all, spending in the rules of the company was cramped.

Kurashige: There was a lot of activities for one person.

Sawa: There were so many, so there was a good deal.Even if you are careful, there are places that get caught.

I'm a member of the organization, so I can't deny those who have given priority to the logic of the organization.On the other hand, there was an outside face, so when I wondered what to do, I thought it would be okay to let go of the project, so I said that I would quit in April without thinking.The company I was was at the end of June, so I had to think about my next career.The next time I wondered what to do, there was no department I wanted to do anyway.

Kurashige: So you decided to change jobs.

Sawa: First, I did activities including transfer in the company.I saw a search site that opened internal and external work around the world, but now I can't go abroad, and I think it's boring to go abroad and do the same job.It's tired to work in English and I wonder if it's okay.I didn't have any jobs that I wanted to do overseas or in Japan, so I decided to change jobs.Competition is easy to go, but it was not an option at all.I was just interested in Linkedin.

Mr. Murakami is the representative of Japan, but because he is on good terms, he contacted him, "Is there any space?"

Kurashige: It's casual.

Sawa: He knows me well, saying, "Isn't it suitable for Sawa now?"It's like "I'm independent."Mr. Minami also said, "I think independence is definitely better."

Kurashima: It's going well since you became independent.

Sawa: If it didn't go well, I thought I could change jobs, I thought I would hire somewhere, so if I quit the company for the time being, I was waiting to quit one after another.I hung it.

Kurashima: There were many people who wanted to work together when they were free.

Sawa: It's easier to call out.The typical example is Slack.

Kurashige: That's right!You can't call while you are in Macrosoft because you're competing.

Sawa: That's right.After quitting, I received a request with the feeling of "helping me because there is such a thing", and we decided to do it together.Recently, Cybozu is the same.I was able to assemble even where I was competing, and my degree of freedom jumped.

Kurashige: It's better to choose it yourself.

Sawa: I used to have a ZOOM meeting just before I had to be careful, but now I don't have to worry about it.In the end, the degree of freedom has increased, and the IT vendor is in a state where everyone can become a client.Activities have become very difficult.

■ Hitachi and Sawa -san were compatible?

Kurashige: I think Hitachi is about to change quite a bit when you look at the news, but it is generally a company with a large and long image.Many people think that using Sawa is very surprising.

Sawa: Hitachi has the impression of a "hard company" or "a serious company".Japanese companies may generally be, but the resolution is coarse in both inside and outside.If you look closely, Hitachi and I are very compatible.Hitachi is inside the "Retinin Kai (Henzinkai)".Originally, it was a "weird party" with unusual people.The culture was to make an unusual person "precious".The idea of "a little strange thinking is needed to achieve innovative ideas" is Hitachi's DNA.In that sense, it's very compatible for me.

Kurashima: It means that it was compatible as a corporate culture.

Sawa: However, both inside and outside the company, the belief that Hitachi is a company that makes it exactly manufacturing.Hitachi people begin to worry, "Isn't it possible to acquire human resources?"I did it.I got the idea of "If you really want to advance DX, how about putting an external idea?"

Kurashige: Let's aim for one -chan.

Sawa: It seems that it was really that glue.I was called through the agent, and when I was a part -time job, I was opened to a press conference, and I thought, "This is not a part -time job."

Kurashige: There is a good part -time job (laughs), but I wanted to improve the organization even better.

Sawa: Everyone thinks the language of that part is "it's hard to say only inside."What you can't say is just like the "naked king".An innocent child enters where an adult wants to say but can't say it, and goes forward by saying the truth.

Kurashige: Other companies that I introduced earlier, etc., may be the common desire to "change more".

Sawa: That's right.In terms of restart from the state where the start line is in place, it is exactly the same in 1995.

Kurashima: Is it Windows95?

Sawa: It is said to be "the first year of the Internet", but it is said that Windows95 is the appearance of Windows95.It is another world around the first year of the Internet.Now, in terms of postcolona, the starting line is completely complete.If you think that everyone is in the same situation and the same situation, I can make use of my knowledge enough, and it will not be too late wherever you start.

"It is more interesting to move the moment the game reset" is my opinion.When 95 came out, I bought a personal computer as a small step.There were not so many people around.

Kurashige: It was like a personal computer gradually spread to a general office from what only some geeks bought.

Sawa: I bought a high -spec one at that very early stage and tweaked it.I tried various things, including extending my memory myself, adding a board, and moving my hands.In the first place, I went to the knowledge more and more.He is a person from a liberal arts and is an engineer who was unusable because of the ponkotsu, but in the Internet era, the start line is in place, so you can become a veteran just one month or two.

Kurashige: It's certainly a great chance.

Sawa: It's not a top -notch, but it's early as an early adapter, so I had a successful experience to take the preceding privileges.So, it was reset again in COVID19.Looking around, I realized that there were still few people who could talk about digital context in a digital context.

Kurashige: There is no doubt.

Sawa: I thought that digital was so infrastructure and it was said to be DX, but I thought that there were quite a few people who could talk about it with management or another tag.I thought it would be an absolutely weapon to know so many tags, so I tried to move.

■ Difference between a different company and a company that is unchanged

Kurashige: There are still places where companies have not changed at all, regardless of whether they are large and small, saying, "Let's quit remote and go back to work when the corona is over."What do you think is the difference between a company that changes and the company that doesn't.

Sawa: I think there are many things.One is that the bridge of the past and present is too strong?In short, if you think too much that "there is now on the past extension", you will feel a great risk for changing.

Kurashige: Do you mean you are caught by past successful experiences?

Sawa: It may be just a routine, not a success, but I feel scared because I can't read the risk of changing.For example, some people may say, "I'm afraid of being angry by the president," "I'm afraid that my status I have built up to now," "I'm afraid that my sales activities will change."。The reason is that the source of fear is unknown.I can't overcome the fear of "I don't know what happens", and eventually I choose to "do not change".This is because you can postpone.

Kurashige: It is a story that the mud boat was sinking when you noticed.

Sawa: There is a fear that "If you open this door, maybe the lava may come down" or "the arrow may fly.""I know it sinks, but it's pretty far ahead."

Perhaps they think, "I'm going to sink in a year, so let's think in a year."But the people outside may think, "That sinks in 30 minutes. Why don't they escape?"

Kurashige: Is it the difference in how it looks there?

Sawa: Probably, I noticed that I wouldn't know when it would sink.

Kurashige: I want you to say from an external perspective.How about actually doing it?

Sawa: After all, I think the outside perspective is very important.I give advice in various ways, but I often notice the splendor of the assets they have, rather than pointing out the problems.For example, even if Kurashige says, "The neckline is very cool," you don't know.

Kurashige: I can't see the back.

Sawa: But it's part of that person's body.There are many good things that you will not notice unless you are told.I don't know even if I say, "The base of the trapezius beside the scapula is very beautiful."

Kurashige: (laughs) Certainly it has to be asked by the people around you.

Sawa: I teach you how to check it.In a matching mirror, he said, "You can see this here."

Kurashige: I see.While organizational development and human resource development are actually being developed, there are people who are willing to change them and those who do not want to change it.At that time, how do you get involved?

Sawa: Everyone can say, "I thought so."It is a way to ask everyone to say, "Did you know?"

Kurashige: Do you know what you say?

Sawa: In most cases.There is almost no conflict."I know that I just act, but I feel difficult and I feel it is difficult."At that time, it is simply consulting about the specific action, "What kind of help do you need?"If you say "I don't know the top" or "the language there is insufficient", I can help you.

Kurashige: Mr. Sawa is good at translation of technology and management.

Sawa: I suggested, "If I say and talk, let's say it in advance.""How about making me a bad guy?"

Kurashima: I also tell the human resources, "Please explain to the management that the lawyer says so."That's really an external role.I think that management is also training, but the management has changed considerably.

Sawa: I feel like I have finally begun to have a sense of crisis of "I have to change".

Kurashige: But many people don't know what to do?

Sawa: The reason is that no one has experience.You probably know, but when you look at it globally, Japan has extremely thick new employee training among the training costs.In Europe and the United States, running costs for management layers are quite high.Japan is very thin for the management layer and you have to remember it yourself.

Kurashige: That's what you can do without permission.

Sawa: Another thing I say is the honorary issue of a Japanese company, but I mean, "You have a very good sales performance so I'll make it a manager to raise your salary."

Kurashige: It's a victory award.

Sawa: It's strange that you can't separate this, saying, "You have to be promoted to raise your salary. If you are promoted, you have to have a team."

Kurashige: That story is different.

Sawa: If you have a strong success, and you have pride there, you ask those who can't do it, "Why can't you?"I want to manage it without knowing why the other person can't do it, so I give a messy advice.In the end, he says, "You can't do you."

Kurashige: The name player is not a director.

Sawa: I guess my role is how to erase such gaps.

Kurashige: It doesn't change so easily in training that collects managers.

Sawa: I think it's important to be able to provide keywords that can be repeated every day in the training.

Kurashima: For example, what does it mean?

Sawa: I often say to team members, "Don't talk at WHY."When a trouble occurs, I want to say, "Why didn't you say", "why did you do that?", "Why didn't you choose this?"

I say that "WHY" is an act that the upper person turns an arrow to the lower person.The lower person has gravity, so it is very difficult to change the direction of the heavy arrow.

"WHY" is an arrow to the person, so please listen to "What".In short, it's not "why did you do that?"What happened, what was the problem, and what was difficult.

Kurashima: What happened?

Sawa: That's right.If you say, "What did you know?", I think it's easy to say, "I don't know this."

Kurashige: You don't blame you, you want to find the cause.

Sawa: There is only one question.How Can I Help You? Ask how you can help.This can be done immediately.

Kurashima: Sure, you can do it from tomorrow.

Sawa: More specifically, try to count how much you want to ask.Maybe you'll notice what you're saying so many times when you go home and have a conversation with your child.As the distance is close, I just say, "Why oh," and "Why not cleaning up?"As the next action, I will hide it.This can be a bigger problem.

Kurashige: You tell you that you are looking at the cause of "what did you do."

Sawa: This can be moved to action immediately.When you say "Do this first," communication changes completely on site.

Kurashige: I see.It's really just a little difference.

Sawa: I always say, "Don't use a big subject."Rather than saying "our company", "our team", "our part", we say "I" and "you".There are many people who explain "customers".When asked, "Who is the customer?"No, "I don't have a company, who is it?"When I said, "I talked about what I was talking about when I was talking to me," "I see, what's the opinion? The evidence is talking about that company.When you ask, "No, I think it's the person's belief."The strategy changes, "Let's attack on it."I will bring my thoughts on how the resolution is coarse.This is all I do.

Kurashige: There was a resolution talk at the beginning, but that's the case.

Sawa: On the other hand, the management must look at the whole angle in a wide -angle like a rough view of the resolution or a bird's -eye view.This is called zoom -in, zoom out.I have made a proposal to be able to repeat the smaller or bigger.

Kurashige: Both are important.

Sawa: I say, "Let's wait for both."One player is interested in what kind of world the new graduates and management are looking at.I don't even say to fully understand.I am interested.The management is the management and the new employees are interested in what kind of world they see.I think you can ask questions if you are interested.

Kurashige: Sure, there are things you don't understand.

Sawa: I think the question will be, "How does this look like you?"Then you can have a conversation between "me" and "you".When asked, "Is this right?", The answer is very nervous.

Kurashige: I think you have to say the correct answer.

Sawa: If you are conscious of using the detailed keyword "I" and "you", the conversation will be concrete.However, if it is just a concrete, it can only be a story that can only be useful in pinpoints.This time it will be an approach to take out abstract things.And increase the degree of abstraction.

Kurashige: Does it look like a tag?When you talk about that, are you consulted that "our employees have less consciousness?"

Sawa: I say immediately at that moment."Who is it?" "How many N equal?"I don't ask, "Is all of A, B, and C?"When you ask, "When did you feel it?""Isn't that a belief?

One -on -one, "When you ask it, you may be using it to protect yourself, saying," I'm scared if it's cold. So the other person must be thinking like this. "I will point out.It may hurt a little, but express the good expression and say, "Let's try it. I'll help."

Kurashige: If you can help, let's try it.If there is a concrete episode without a consciousness of the parties, it is a story that you can say it properly on the spot.

Sawa: "I feel like that" is almost always there.

Kurashige: Is there any of general employees who say, "It's impossible to say that you can have a business perspective?"

Sawa: Of course.Then the question is, "What did you enter the company?"Suppose you say, "It's for salary.""For salary, if you lose to those with a higher vision, you will not be able to complain, but is that OK?"Or the point is, "When you change jobs, you have no value, but don't you think it's a risk."

Kurashige: That's good, that leads to a story of personal power.

Sawa: It may be a story that "I don't think I will continue to get to the company so that I can hire you all the time, even though I am not motivated to do you."I don't say that far.

Kurashima: Now, a personal career story has come out.This is the case for the organization, and it is an era where the lifetime employment system collapses and what will happen.Do you tell young people the consciousness of "how to survive"?

Sawa: That's a tag.I will make the tags myself more and more.In addition, since I won the person who said, I said first, and it feels more and more realistic.

Kurashima: Do you want to do this area, are interested, or that?

Sawa: Because it is a tag, the abstraction is high from the beginning.I think it is different that you should not claim the tag unless you are the number one world.

Kurashige: Certainly, it is not that only one person in the world can give himself.I think it is written in various books, but it is said that how to find yourself and being are important.I think many people say, "I don't know how I want to be in the first place."

Sawa: This is the first thing to consider if you have a longing or a favorite person.Anything will do.You can use a person or a character.Please observe where you like the character in detail.

Kurashima: The hero for me was always in some times.

Sawa: If you disassemble it, I think it will become closer to the image you want to be.

Kurashima: It's certainly very easy to understand.

(to be continued)

Dialogue cooperation: Sawa

Representative director of Enshu Co., Ltd.

Former Microsoft, Japan, a business executive officer.He served as the director of the Microsoft Technology Center until August 2020.

They provide advisors and consulting in a wide range of areas, such as improving the productivity of DX and business people, cyber security and organizational management.

He has a title such as advisors, university teachers, and Voice personality of multiple companies, and also sends information as a roll model for "multiple jobs".